I would say that depends on whether or not said creatures have their backs turned towards the door, the amount of light (if any) allowed into the room by the opening of the door, and whether or not the hinges are in need of oiling.

Regardless, I've noticed some fishy things myself in regards to the suspicions of "ninja looting," so any changes that might help to deter that would be welcome.

As much as I hate ninja looting, part of sneaking about is being able to open things without being heard or seen.

To gimp them this way, in my opinion, wouldn't be very legit. Although I agree something must be done, and doors is understandable. You're going to notice a door swing open. But such classes are all about the sneakiness, and what good would you be as a spy, thief or such if you couldn't operate a simple thing without being had?

So you are saying if you are standing in a room and a chest opens...you wouldn't notice? I think you would even if you were deaf

Now bags and things are different.

Just throwing this out there.The shadow dancers ability to hide in plain sight,is described as a supernatural ability.To penalize them for using it in combat,seems like asking them to tie one hand behind their back.I see the point of standing there, slugging it out and using it. What if you strike,disengage,then slip into the shadows then strike again?This would seem the way they would engage foes.Since they are not tanks(aka)Fighters with mucho hp's and high strength,and fully decked out in the best aromor they can get their hands on.Same question could go towards the spell casters.Would you limit the amount of buffs they would be able to use before entering combat?To limit one classes ability to use their feats to their best advantage would seem unfair.This has been submitted without prejudice.

I'll field this one. I saw something implemented on another server because of this issue which punished stealth as soon as you became a shadow dancer which is something that is not wanted.

The issue isn't stealthing away to get out of the combat and heal or get the sneak attack in. What it has to do with is attacking and instantly pulling back and stealthing before the opponent has a chance to attack repeatedly, thereby meaning there is no chance you will even get hurt. In the example of the fighter, no matter how good his equipment is, there will always be a chance that he is hurt and same with mages that use improved invisibility along with other buffs and then attack.

In PnP there would be a surprise attack, and then initiatives rolled. This method takes that completely out and means opponents never even get a chance to attack you, regardless of how good their initiative is unless they have true sight going or have incredible spot.

It's actually possible to open a door without getting noticed, but that is dependant on a lot of factors. Contrary to what the engine suggests, when I play Arian, she only opens the door a crack, so she can fit through, then sneak in and close it. Darkness and sound are the two key things. If it's not very well lit, or in complete darkness, chances are you aren't going to notice if a door opens just a crack, especially if there's no light on the otherwide, which is another reasoning of opening it just a tiny bit, unfortunately, the engine, in mechanics wise, doesen't really have a way of this happening. As for sounds, if there is louder sounds going on, chances are, you won't hear a door open either, or not likely anyways. Be honest, are you going to hear a quiet creak while you're listening to a blacksmith clank his hammer on a hot weapon?


Edit: I'm also going to add, if Ninja looting is such a big problem, why not just script it so loot is only spawned if the monsters of the particular encounter is killed? That is, the encounters guarding the chests, that would be a much more favorable solution, in my opinion.

I understand the concern of,abusing the ability, to avoid getting attacked.My point was along the same as yours,the hated ability to blend into shadows,(even for rogues who get out of sight),of the shadow dancer.Some see it as an unfair advantage.Why?Because the shadow dancer makes them feel impotent.Thats why, I like the widget you have incorperated into the mod(ie)exclude me from the pc list.It keeps the metagaming from coming into play.

Mighty Khan wrote: I'll field this one. I saw something implemented on another server because of this issue which punished stealth as soon as you became a shadow dancer which is something that is not wanted.

The issue isn't stealthing away to get out of the combat and heal or get the sneak attack in. What it has to do with is attacking and instantly pulling back and stealthing before the opponent has a chance to attack repeatedly, thereby meaning there is no chance you will even get hurt. In the example of the fighter, no matter how good his equipment is, there will always be a chance that he is hurt and same with mages that use improved invisibility along with other buffs and then attack.

In PnP there would be a surprise attack, and then initiatives rolled. This method takes that completely out and means opponents never even get a chance to attack you, regardless of how good their initiative is unless they have true sight going or have incredible spot.
Ye know... I'm not sure if the stealth action is scripted... if it is, I could put a block in there that after a destealth you need to wait 9 secs or something to stealth again.

Not sure if NWN will actually allow this (I doubt it) but that kind of block gives people at least a chance to retaliate, while giving the rogue a chance to retreat if neccesary.
Oh, and yes, if you're stunned/confused/knocked prone, I'd say hiding shouldn't work -at all-. Especially HIPS.

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Ye know... I'm not sure if the stealth action is scripted... if it is, I could put a block in there that after a destealth you need to wait 9 secs or something to stealth again.

Not sure if NWN will actually allow this (I doubt it) but that kind of block gives people at least a chance to retaliate, while giving the rogue a chance to retreat if neccesary.
Oh, and yes, if you're stunned/confused/knocked prone, I'd say hiding shouldn't work -at all-. Especially HIPS.

It does as that's what I saw done on the other server, but unfortunately only to Shadow Dancers and without telling the player base it was going to be done. My personal vote is that it should however be for all stealth and not just HIPS.

If a solution like this can be avoided by people not abusing the ability however I think that would be apreciated by all.

I played on a server that had stealth scripted to a six second interval.Once you came out of stealth, you had to wait six seconds, before attempting to go into stealth mode.It can be scripted,but as Khan pointed out,if everyone did their best not abuse it,then a fix would not be required.

Is this a real problem? I mean the game has its limitations and I understand as a DM sometimes it could get frustrating to see someone make a loop all the way round the server without taking alot of damage. But the monsters are there to get owned. Gnoll Archers in game have a better range then PC's by the way. They spot and start shooting way before you can. I don't think there are many shadow dancers on the mod right now but I remember it being extremely difficult to attempt a flicker fight. I don't think i ever pulled it off for more then a round in the last TSM. It certainly has risk.

In fact I would venture that striking from range and shadow have at least as much risk as standing in front of someone and continuously knocking them down. Why is that okay? This also does not allow the opponent an attack. Or what about Isaac's Missle storms? There is nothing that can stop those.

I think if your gonna come down on archers and stealth people without coming down on knockdown and Isaac's then it certainly lopsides the game.

I wouldn't mind seeing a six second stealth thing or AI that lets the group charge the archer but I also want to see a six second wait on knockdown, disarm, stun, called shot. So much crap in the game just spams knockdown. First of all its stupid to begin with, if your on the ground you should still be able to strike or cast a spell. Second, a PC is in danger of constantly being knocked down by creatures that can't even hit their AC but roll a twenty then just keep knocking them down never letting them rise again. Thats just silly. It takes everything they have to hit you on a lucky roll of a twenty but they attack you at four less to hit and still have the same chance of knocking you flat. Dodging ten of those in a round gives you like a fifty fifty chance of getting owned.

I think if we have to fight fair 9 so to speak by always letting the enemy have a fifty fifty or even twenty percent chance of killing us) then alot of people are going to be really really frustrated. Why? Because the game doesn't play fair for one. Getting five Weird spells thrown at you or three implosions the first time your seen is ridiculous. That freaking drown save is crazy that the water elementals spam you with. All of those spells are like a fifty fifty. I personally dont really want to be involved in any fights where Im less then 70 percent to live. A few of those makes for certain death.

It has been nice to see alot of different characters on the server and I would hate to see it populated by mostly fighters with knockdown and sorcerors with Isaac's. Those classes are well and good but diversity makes for a much more interesting server. (Except for RDD's. That whole class is an exploit IMHO. )


I know our DM's keep a darn even keel so I'm not terribly worried about the implementation of these new rules. I would hope that if someone is borderline exploiting these that a DM can possess and make the fight more interesting or maybe bring a another patrol round behind the character etc... The line between fighting with good tactics to exploit your opponents weakness and fighting to exploit the games weaknesses can sometimes be fuzzy.

I hear you on the combat ability spamming, Chaos_Cascade. That too has been put on the "pending for GM/Lead builder review" list... if accepted, that too will be a once per round . Not that it'll help you much if you get swarmed by some 5 KD capable beings (it'd still be 5 KD's per round), but versus just one or two there may be a significant improvement.

The enemy AI (or AO, as I'd call it - Artificial Omniscience) leaves a lot to be desired. As others have pointed out, creatures seem to "know" your character's skills and compensate for your immunities.

If you have an item that makes you immune to Hold, guess what? They won't waste their firepower trying to cast that spell on you; instead, they'll all spam you with Inflict spells simultaneously, like some manner of Borg-like collective mind. Many enemies have Taunt, and use it to great effect (spammingly, of course!) on characters with low Concentration - but if that skill is high enough, they won't even waste their rounds trying. The same goes for Knockdown.

On the topic of ranged combat, Lintarith hardly ever even uses his bow anymore at this point, because I don't want to be labeled as one who exploits bugs in the game. I'd actually like a fix to the "out of range, out of mind" so that I could actually use a bow at significant range without "cheating." When I try, the one I hit fights back while his comrades mill about with their tongues hanging out. Really, what's the point of ranged weapons if when the enemy is actually at range we can't fire on them without cheating?

Those are my rants. Feel free to comment.

I think this problem has come up because people are going through an area and leaving high level spawns for other people to walk into...

Its not that they shouldnt be able to do it, but when my fourth level monk goes down to the lower level in the dank cave, he cant cope with the bugbear heros someone has left there... I managed to run and get out, someone else wasnt so lucky... I know from talking to people its also been happening in the Lizard Cave.

So either people have the sense not to take high levels down there... or something has to be done so they have to face the spawns they have created, and not leave ambushes for other people to "benefit" from.

DM's might jump on this if they see it happen, but as they cant be everywhere at once, the only option is to make the Game mechanics so they cant abuse the situation.

The best solution is if people have a bit of common sense and go to appropriate areas for their level, this would not be such an issue. But yes sometime things in harder areas spot you... thats part of the game...

Sometimes they all cast disjunction, then hit you with 3 words of faith, and then 3 fingers of death... but thats another story, and no it wasnt pretty.

Yeah it was the human mercs... got three of them and an elf or two for good measure... That encounter scales so horribly, If you are to slow getting to them you are just toast.... tried sneaking past, it doenst work on the ones at the end of the walkway..

Might have to go the invisibility option, but I think they see past that, and wouldnt be fair until you get the despawning script working.

Its the one area that I have found harder the higher level I get, to the point where I dont go there anymore, If you go there mob handed it just gets worse. We tried the other day... all three of us ended up in Fuege..