I think it explains the concept pretty well in the Paladin Orders entry in the FRCS. Besides, it allows for inner conflict in the church between the god's LN followers and the LG ones, which is always interesting. Just keep in mind that just because you don't agree with the "one step" rule doesn't mean that it isn't there, and that as per the setting, Helm does in fact have LG paladins and other classes among his followers. You won't really find much in Helm's dogma that conflicts with the LG paladin mindset.

Never betray your trust. Be vigilant. Stand, wait, and watch carefully. Be fair and diligent in the conduct of your orders. Protect the weak, poor, injured, and young, and do not sacrifice them for others or yourself. Anticipate attacks and be ready. Know your foes. Care for your weapons so they may perform their duties when called upon. Careful planning always defeats rushed actions in the end. Always obey orders, providing those orders follow the dictates of Helm. Demonstrate excellence and purity of loyalty in your role as a guardian and protector.

But here is where the challenge comes in:

Quote: I've played paladin of Helm before... never again. Choosing between dictates of Helm and Paladin codex is in some situations impossible.

It's a balancing act; you have to balance your sense of duty and the "good heart" of a paladin. In some situations, yes, there will be inner conflict. But again, that only serves to make things more interesting for the player of the paladin. It can certainly be done, and was a role that I myself found to be lots of fun.

It's definitely not for people who want to play the typical flawless, damn near saintly holy knight nor the cleric who always manages to do exactly what his god expects of him, without fail...but what fun are characters with no flaws?

See, this is for very long discussion and its maybe worhty of opening a new thread about Deity alignment = Character alignment > Yes or no?

But the fact is that Helmites hierarchy is pretty militaristic and VERY strict. By not obeying the order you immediatelly find yourself on very thin ice which mostly ends by your removal from Helmite ranks. So yes, i see a huge conflict between LG and LN, especially in Helm's case.

Paladins are mainly diplomats and they are using violance as a final solution in most cases. They will offer peaceful solution once, twice etc etc...... before they lift the sword.

Helmites are more soldiers, they are not to be messed with because of their strict nature. They offer you peaceful solution once and then you get shot.

Also, perfect book is this. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/fracc/886430000 All Gods are very well described.

Deity alignment != Char alignment. Exceptions are Clerics, Monks, Blackguards and Paladins.

Clergy: Their alignment has restrictions based on that deity. These restrictions are listed with the various deities. Depends on the deity.
Monks: Their alignment can be restricted by their order (always lawful). Depends on the order.

Aeternus wrote: Deity alignment != Char alignment. Exceptions are Clerics, Monks, Blackguards and Paladins.


All right, but while Paladin break Paladin's codex or the Dogma of his/her Deity, does he receive Chaotic points, for example? Or, in case that paladin do something which is strictly prohibited by Paladin codex [ if he follows LN deity he might receive an order to do something which is totally not good, I mean], does he receive Evil points? Or there is no punishment for breaking the Paladin Codex or the Dogma of God?

Also, I dont get why the CLOSEST followers {those that using divine powers} are allowed to be of a different alignment while a plain fighter who does not use any divine power must strictly follow the deity alignment. It seems to be somehow... upside down.

Who ever said that fighters should keep to the deity's alignment? That makes no sense at all to me... Fighters of any faith can be of any alignment ('though some combinations do not make much sense, granted).

As for the pally thing: Deities who's dogma is in violation with paladin codex, simply should not have paladins. Elven deities for one are all chaotic. There are no paladins to the elven faiths. (No, I don't care that some PCs tend to do that. It's wrong.)

Got it now, sorry, I did not see that "!" before "=" for the first time.

Okay, makes perfect sense now.

Aeternus wrote: As for the pally thing: Deities who's dogma is in violation with paladin codex, simply should not have paladins. Elven deities for one are all chaotic. There are no paladins to the elven faiths. (No, I don't care that some PCs tend to do that. It's wrong.)

I concur. *nods*

Sune is Chaotic Good and has Paladins, doesn't she?

Granted that doesn't automatically mean any and every god gets paladins... but still!

Actually, Sune is the sole exception to the rule.

The problem with Helm is that he will sometimes make his devouts commit a downright evil act. Which... Paladins have problems with.

Quote: As for the pally thing: Deities who's dogma is in violation with paladin codex, simply should not have paladins. Elven deities for one are all chaotic. There are no paladins to the elven faiths. (No, I don't care that some PCs tend to do that. It's wrong.)

It sure is. Elves and, even MOREso their pantheon of gods the Seldarine, value individual freedom as opposed to the restricting code that Paladins and Monks are required to adhere to. This is why you'll never see official WotC material regarding an elven god sponsoring an order of Monks or LG Paladins.

This is quite different from Helm's order of paladins. They exist, as outlined in the FRCS, but would imagine that they tend to be somewhat at odds with the mostly LN clerics and lay priests. But I consider this a GOOD thing, because internal conflict within an organization or, in this case, with oneSELF can be oh so much fun to play with.

As for Sune.. well, I don't care to imagine the sorts of things debated in that circle. "Feh" on froofy deities of love and beauty. (I kid, I kid.) ;-P

Discussion of Helm paladins moved to "Questions" topic.